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This interview was conducted on April 26 2006. Azazel_: How did you get into the WC3 modding community? iNfraNe: I've been mapping some in redalert2 but that was nothing, after this I tried some mapping on RoC but this led to nothing either. It was probably when I played scary forest 2 that I really started making something with the editor. Anitarf: I spent most of RoC just playing the game, although I like being creative and I 'mapped' before Warcraft, although in a different environment: I made maps for Quake 2. The map that really inspired me to open the World Editor was Advanced Hero Arena; it just did everything right that other arenas did wrong, and I thought, hey, if you bother to think outside the box, you can do cool stuff here. Then TFT came with enhanced editing possibilities and I was in. Azazel_: Why was clan WEnW founded and what made it unique? iNfraNe: Once, a long time ago, when I was still in a rather weird clan, me and my friend voi decided to make a mappers clan. It then also held some other guys besides mappers, but slowly it grew to have more mappers. What makes it unique is.. I guess that we actually have the top of the mappers (imo). This makes the clan produce very good maps, but also letting the newer people learn from us. Anitarf: I joined the clan much later. I had a clan member on my contact list from I know not when, and one day he suddenly invited me if I wanted to test a map with him and iNfraNe. The map was so outside-the-box, so new, that I just knew, this was a place where I had to be. Now despite my help (or more likely because of it ) the map is still not done, so I can't really show you what it was, but suffice to say that it embodies the spirit of innovation that motivates us to push Warcraft to it's limits. Azazel_: Your co-developed cinematic map, Spirit of Vengence, won Blizzard's Cinematic contest. Tell us more about your development process. What were your inspirations, obstacles faced and how long did it take for you to complete it? iNfraNe: It was when Blizzard announced what they meant with "No custom units/doodads" when we started the map. We saw it as a good way to practise our cinematic skills and the chance to create a cinematic that would be noticed straight away. The process of development basically led itself, we splited tasks as good as possible and swapped the map when someone had just finished something to let the other one work on it. Our inspiration was simple: We always thought that the cinematics made were too... well, its hard to explain, but.. Wc3ish. Which means they dont feel like a movie, they feel like looking at the wc3 game while units are fighting. We thought it was time we changed that and made something better. We think we succeeded, but it's all a matter of taste. Obstacles werent really there. We had planned it all from the start well enough and kept in all problems, which needed to be solved. The only obstacle Iguess was the timelimit and the deadline, which was too soon for our likes. Ani stayed up 2 full nights and I stayed up 1 full night at the last few days before the deadline just to finish it. That's why there are a few flaws in the movie. Anitarf: The deadline certainly was this big, threatening thing we were facing: but it was also a terrific motivation. Things got done. I remember the brainstorming session we had, it took us one evening to envision most of the cinematic. iNfraNe mentioned he wanted to use the Warden model somehow, since it was a cool model, but not used in cinematics much, and I thought that there really was no better storyline about venegeance than that of Maiev and Illidan. At that point we paused a bit, since using Illidan's model seemed a bit cliche, but after we kept getting more and more ideas for this storyline, we knew we had to go with it. This was all decided in two days, and afterwards, the cinematic was done in a month. However, it is true we were planning to make a cinematic a while before that, so we have already discussed matters like technical issues of making a cinematic before, and that helped quite a bit; we could spend less time thinking and more time working. Azazel_: Many new map developers often find making maps to be a daunting and time consuming task. It took me months myself to learn the fundamentals of JASS with Pipedream's help. What advice would you give to new map developers who have no background in programming? iNfraNe: Well, my advice would be: Get a programming background. Without the sense that comes with learning a language jass seems to be hard to understand. I wouldnt know, i've been programming since I was like.. 7. Anitarf: You can get a programming background by learning Jass, too. It may take a while, but look at it this way, even if you know how to do everything, completing a reasonably big project is going to take you months anyway. If you can accept this, if you are willing to make this a long-term hobby, then the time it takes to learn how to do things won't be a problem. Azazel_: What do you feel about Blizzard's support to Warcraft III's modding community? Many people feel that they have done little more than lip service after setting up the mod support forums. iNfraNe: Blizzard's support to the wc3 modding community? Where? I think they just spend to much time on wow, but what would you expect, that is the game which gave them huge money. Anitarf: The cinematic contest was a great event, but after that, things appear to have come to a halt. Of course, they aren't making much money anymore off Warcraft 3; but they shouldn't entirely forsake their legacy because it no longer makes a profit, it is still the foundation upon which their fame is built. Azazel_: You mentioned once that you are planning on developing a new cinematic. Would you care to shed more light on its development? iNfraNe: So far there is close to no progress. The story is about done and ani is writing the dialogue. Before that all is finished there isnt much to be done. And ani wishes to finish his current projects first. I guess itll take a long time before we have anything to share. Anitarf: Yes, things go by a lot slower when there is no deadline set. I did spend some time thinking about the cinematic just today; that was, when I was walking from my job to the faculty. Sadly, real life can consume a lot of your time sometimes. This is why I want to get some of my other projects finished before we really start working on it, so at least then, I'll be able to give my full attention to it. If anything, that's what we learned from tSoV, things get done a lot faster if you remember what you did the last time you were working on something because this last time was only yesterday and not a week ago. Azazel_: What is WEnW's philosophy on map development? Do you frown on "simple" and mass appeal maps like Defense of the Ancients Allstars? iNfraNe: I admire the fact that certain maps seem to have a feature that attracts the masses. I dislike the fact that that feature seems to be imballance. Anitarf: I think maps and games in general should be as simple as possible, so I don't frown upon it, I encourage it. I think "complexity" is overrated, you don't have to make a map's design complicated in order to make the gameplay complex, because it will only end up being complicated, and that's two different things. As for DotA:A, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from it, since it's the number 1 played map due to a variety of factors, not just because of what kind of a map it is today. Azazel_: Should map development be about what makes you happy and fulfilled, or what the players want? How often do you feel that these factors are complimentary? iNfraNe: I make every map with in mind that it should make other people want to play it. However, when making it I usually make myself like it more than other people. It's hard to keep things simple enough. I usually try to talk other people out of making things too complicated but I've only made 1 playable map that is enjoyable for most people. I think you should find a combination of the two that makes it still be fun for you to make, but alot of fun to play too. Anitarf: I think you should definitely make a map that makes you happy; of course, I consider the map's popularity as one of the happiness factors as well. Each mapmaker has to know for himself, what is it he wants to do. If you have an idea you like a lot, don't let public opinion shoot it down. If you just want to make something people will enjoy playing with you, then listen what they have to say about it. Azazel_: What are clan WEnW's plans for the future? Will it be branching out to games beyond Warcraft III's engine? iNfraNe: This depends on the games that will be released. If there come games that have a good editor that can do more/thesame as the one of wc3 then it will be great and I'll probably vote for moving to that game. Anitarf: There really doesn't appear to be a game on the market that would be so easily moddable as Warcraft 3. The coolest thing here is that you can make a lot of maps, try out a lot of ideas, over the lifespan of the game, unlike a first person shooter which arguably has more potential, but to reach it, you have to have almost the same amount of skill and time as the professionals who made it. Azazel_: How important is learning JASS to a map developer? iNfraNe: In my opinion it is very important. However, it is very hard to explain to people that use gui only why it is so powerful. Without jass you are mostly so limited and I always feel like my code looks so dirty and ugly when I wrote it in gui. Jass can be clean and run much faster. Anitarf: I think it's just useful knowledge for the future. Sure, unless you're doing complicated maps, you can get the job done with GUI triggering, but Jass is actually a programming language. However lame it may be compared to real programming languages, the point is that you can learn about programming on it, and that's something that you can find useful in the future, even after Warcraft 3. Azazel_: What are you views on map optimizing for the primary purpose of "protecting" them? iNfraNe: I dont really have an opinion about this. Many people protect cause they dont want people stealing their maps. What they dont realise is that only popular maps are stolen and that their maps probably will never be popular (I know mine never will be). I dont really care for people wanting to learn from maps either. Usually they will not understand it since it is VERY hard to decode someone elses code. It always takes me longer than to just figure it out myself. Anitarf: I agree with iNfraNe, I don't find the pros and cons of either side particularly significant, and it seems to me like the debate about map "protection" is way overheated. The debate is a clash of ideologies, and people use every petty issue to promote their cause. |
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